|
Post by The Halifax Ringer on Jul 5, 2011 8:44:09 GMT
How is this different to last season other than being a little more organised?
|
|
dave
County Player
Division 4 & Team KO Secretary
Posts: 483
|
Post by dave on Jul 5, 2011 11:05:35 GMT
two "home" teams toss for tables and then toss for semis i dont mind this way (personally prefer this) but last year was told this is how we do it end of then next year change again. All we ask is consistancy.
|
|
dave
County Player
Division 4 & Team KO Secretary
Posts: 483
|
Post by dave on Jul 5, 2011 11:10:09 GMT
4D Committee Team Competitions Secretary member is offline Joined: Jun 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 1,725 Team: Queen Edith A Re: Quarter Final Draws « Reply #9 on Jan 7, 2011, 12:00am » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave and Dylan will toss for choice of the tables. Mickeys A table is the one closest to the bar. Steve and Andy to do the same this weekend Read more: cambridgepool.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ko&action=display&thread=5206#ixzz1RECt63rx
|
|
dave
County Player
Division 4 & Team KO Secretary
Posts: 483
|
Post by dave on Jul 5, 2011 11:16:36 GMT
so tossing is the fairest and the precedent is set no arguments
|
|
dave
County Player
Division 4 & Team KO Secretary
Posts: 483
|
Post by dave on Jul 5, 2011 11:19:55 GMT
also imagine the calls you would get if you had put us on our table............as happened 2 seasons ago when it was then changed to.............................toss for tables
so why change
|
|
|
Post by Steve McCann on Jul 5, 2011 11:41:00 GMT
As admirable as it would be to keep to precedent, 4D probably realises that adding a cointoss into the mix adds about 15 minutes of admin before the teams get playing! It's amazing how long these things take when you can't hear yourself think.
|
|
dave
County Player
Division 4 & Team KO Secretary
Posts: 483
|
Post by dave on Jul 5, 2011 12:03:42 GMT
i agree Steve but go back and read last years thread it was done so why change it also stops anybody accusing being bent as it is in the open with all teams present as it was in previous years. 2 seasons ago we was placed on our home table, before the match however there were complaints about it being our home table. So the outcome which we also agreed to was to toss for the table. Last season again as posted above from other tread the "home" captains tossed for the tables and then retossed for semi. So why change this year again the precedent was set so end of.
|
|
dave
County Player
Division 4 & Team KO Secretary
Posts: 483
|
Post by dave on Jul 5, 2011 12:04:26 GMT
1 team 1 rule
|
|
dave
County Player
Division 4 & Team KO Secretary
Posts: 483
|
Post by dave on Jul 5, 2011 12:05:25 GMT
was the rule changed at the agm?
|
|
|
Post by dad - AKA Onespin on Jul 5, 2011 12:22:26 GMT
Couldn't you have wrapped all that up into 1 post
|
|
|
Post by Steve McCann on Jul 5, 2011 12:50:33 GMT
Such a mundane point would never be mentioned in the constitution and the only rules that change at the agm (or even exist to be changed for that matter) are those in the constitution. 4D is the TKO secretary and he chooses the best way of doing it. I'm sure he would be consistent with last year, but if there is confusion and issues with it he's free to try something new. A random draw was made, and therefore the coin toss over tables has effectively already been made. Giving the winner of the coin toss choice over table makes it less random and I'm sure some people would happily argue the point that that course of action is a sham. In summary, this issue means very little, it's 4D's choice over how it's done and whichever way it goes there will be arguments on both sides. Some times people argue passionately for chance and sometimes people argue for things to be the same. In this instance, it doesn't really matter.
|
|
dave
County Player
Division 4 & Team KO Secretary
Posts: 483
|
Post by dave on Jul 5, 2011 14:52:21 GMT
Absulute rubbish Steve, 2 seasons ago mom complained we was on home table end result toss of coin . And the final was decided by coin toss with it played on table 2. Last year teams complained bout why we should not play on our table end result "home team capts toss coin" Now this year I'll assume draw was witnessed however now mickeys been drawn "at home" tables are fixed! I would hope this is an oversight and a cointoss is fair and consistant. Ps this is the view of mickeys team as a whole.
|
|
|
Post by Newbie on Jul 5, 2011 15:00:08 GMT
You want us to tell you where our table rolls Dale?
|
|
|
Post by Steve McCann on Jul 5, 2011 15:15:40 GMT
Although you say it's absolute rubbish, you haven't actually disagreed with me anywhere there. The point is... if you designate the A table as table 1 and B table as table 2... you can do the draw (as has been done) where match 1 is on table 1 and match 2 on table 2. The semi-final on the better table (table 1). It would be a joke to have the semi-final on the worse table (hopefully all parties including MOM would agree). If you coin toss on the day, that is also random. The fact of the matter is, it's rude and disrespectful for people to accuse the committee of rigging draws and general bias (although that doesn't stop most people including some on the committee). Another point is that whichever way you do it, someone will complain. If you do coin tosses, how long until someone complains that Mickey's have an unfair advantage anyway because the quarters and semis are held there. My joking point that by allowing the winner of a coin toss to choose is actually the least random way, as you give one person the chance to choose where they play (and where the other two teams play), was there to inspire logical discussion. A coin toss seems fair and 4D probably will agree but I don't believe such an "issue" deserves any attention really. People will be pillocks and will accuse teams of gaining an unfair advantage when their home venue is used, and some people will go as far as to act like this after blatantly attempting to cheat themselves. I've seen it all mate... either way, you'll get people being idiots.
|
|
|
Post by schmack on Jul 5, 2011 15:22:24 GMT
This is an utterly ludicrous argument
what is the concern here? you will randomly be chosen to play on a table that isnt your home table in your own venue
there is such a thing as overcomplicating things..................
|
|
|
Post by The Halifax Ringer on Jul 5, 2011 16:22:21 GMT
Well, it seems people will really argue about anything. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
Precedent is ok if things work well. I got so many complaints and comments last season about who's on which table, or who puts their names down first, who's tossing and when, This way, it's decided for you as part of the draw.
First two QF's drawn get put on table 1. Second two QF's get placed on table 2. Semi-Finals get played on Table 1 as it's seen as the better of the two tables. Whether Mickey's A, Arbers, B or C are in the draw or not makes no difference. (Funny how I got no comments surrounding last seasons Plate when Mickey's C were drawn...). I'm fed up pandering to peoples whim's because there is seen as some disparity in fairness. Doing the draw and evenings this way means that it is drawn in a -fair and just- way, regardless of who is in the draw.
|
|
|
Post by Steve McCann on Jul 5, 2011 16:30:11 GMT
I have spoken to Dale over the phone on this as the internet is not the best medium for some discussions. I completely agree with both points of view and generally believe that the precedent from last year is perfect as long as the coin toss at the time decides which quarter final goes on which table, and the captains do not get to choose. As 4D has posted above, he has effectively already done this coin toss. It is important to realise that the draw including which tables are used has been made in an unbiased manner by Matt and that arguments over fairness on the day will not be tolerated. The decision has been made and it's quite simple to follow. The benefit of a coin toss on the day is that everyone can see the draw being made, but after Matt's last post then it is up to those involved to trust him. If you don't trust him you can toss by yourselves for all I care. Dale's points are all valid and any arguments over tables or bias or anything else, are arguments against Mickey Flynn's sponsoring the event or arguments against those individuals on the committee. If those people have a problem with those, come to the AGM and do something about it/them!
|
|
noshjunior
Won a few trophies
CSC Young Gunz
Posts: 104
|
Post by noshjunior on Jul 6, 2011 14:07:35 GMT
Dont look like I'l make the quarters. 16th July is the day of my birthday party.
|
|
smackmyballs
County Player
“When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro.”
Posts: 428
|
Post by smackmyballs on Jul 7, 2011 9:22:12 GMT
You can cry if you want to
|
|
tatsu
Won a few trophies
Posts: 148
|
Post by tatsu on Jul 7, 2011 9:25:10 GMT
Dont look like I'l make the quarters. 16th July is the day of my birthday party. OOh will there be jelly, cake and pass the parcel? ;D
|
|