Final Week Scenarios

[Box]

One of those will never happen ;D

[orrible]

Surely he is already bald. That's gotta be a syrup?

[chronos]

masterofceremonies said:

Could I just suggest that you both have valid points, and that something like this would incorporate both ideas:
1 point per frame won.
2 points per team win.
1 point per 3 frames won per team.
In the event of a draw, a playoff between 2 designated players for the 2 win points. (This frame does not count towards Hotshots, as this would give certain players an advantage.)

This system may too be flawed, but it rewards both individual frames, team wins and team performance, even in defeat. There is a marked difference between losing 7-5 and drawing 6-6 because there could be a swing of 4 points (2 for winning on a playoff, 1 for winning the 12th frame and 1 for reaching 6 points). There is also a significant difference between losing the match 10-2 and losing 9-3.
Maximum points haul per match is then 18 points.
12 Frame win points
4 "per 3 frame" bonus points
2 Match win points
This way each frame remains very important in the context of the season, and teams on the whole are rewarded for winning matches too. Also, convincing wins are held in higher esteem than scraped wins, therefore rewarding the best team effort over the season. Thoughts?

I like the sound of this idea. You going to bring this forward at the AGM Richard?

Personally I'd vote for either this option, frames counting with 2pts added for a team win or to stay as it is.

All three will probably end in a result which favours a team game. After all, we are teams, not just a token bunch of individuals playing one frame at a time.......

[orrible]

that's half the issue here isn't it.
Yes we are teams but individual performances (frames) should count! But not as a form of Goal difference, which is the same as not meaning much at all.

I'm sure if we keep thrashing ideas we will come up with something good. This system is not good that we have at the moment (in my view).

I suggest each person with their view should post a format each, which could be presented to the committee?

[chris]

please remember you need to read the constitution and take note of how we bring stuff up at the agm

[Qubit]

There are some very valid points raised here. Some have said that the current system rewards consistency. This simply isnt true. It may reward consistently winning matches, but this isnt really a definition of consistency, which is more to do with consistency of scoreline from week to week and not losing by large margins when a loss occurs, which the current system doesnt address. 7-5 gets you nothing, but cannot be argued to be the same as 12-0 by any sane person - in one situation the losing team were clearly most likely in it, in the other they were by all accounts thrashed. The system is flawed.

I would like to see a change to a better points system (not hard, because it would be hard to come up with a worse one) but simplicity is important otherwise it risks not being adopted, ie an achievable goal.
Im hoping to submit something to the committee asking that the points system in premier and div1 be looked at. As a balance between all considerations a point for every 3 frames (plus a point or 2 for the win) is a good system as mentioned elsewhere on the forums a few times. Its not too complicated and addresses most of the flaws with the current system.

[the30yarder]

orrible said:

firstly. This system is unique to CAPL.
Nowhere else has a system that plays Dead frames. It should all be about frames. Frames and bonuses for a team win.
secondly. My opinion on this has nothing to do with who would have won, who has won on whatever system in the past and/or anything to do with my team. So you are a cynic!

The current format is blinkered to match wins and can cause the death of the league with 3 or 4 matches to go.

There are teams at the moment just going through the motions and fulfilling fixtures.
Even if there was a slight chance of winning 12-0 every week surely that keeps te league alive.

We play frames of Pool that you win or lose and the game is that frame of Pool.

Football is a game of Football that requires goals to determine a result. A part of the game like potting a ball is part of a frame.

The team part comes into it that an individuals frame wins and losses count for their team. All frames should count. The current system is flawed.

Your other point about only 4 players showing up.... You would get a similar result with the points system... being 4-0 down means the points are almost guaranteed anyway, so your point is null & void.

I will put this point across at the AGM for Winter lgue.

orrible, fan that I am of your regular thought-provoking posts, this one is unbalanced and inaccurate.

Firstly, this system is NOT unique to CAPL, in fact you have just entered another league that uses the exact same scoring system, Superleague.

Secondly, how can you on the one hand argue that there's always a chance of winning the title near the end of the season with a streak of 12-0s and then say that a 4-man team stands almost no chance of a victory when the fact is they could still afford to lose one of their frames?

The system we use at the moment makes the league much closer than it otherwise would be and if frames won and lost were the difference between 2 teams on equal points (as is done in Superleague), then EVERY FRAME WOULD COUNT.

However, I agree that frames should still have a little more clout and have suggested on this forum in the past that we should use a bonus points system to reward frames won beyond the 7 (like tries are in rugby in the Guiness Premiership), say one point for reaching 10 and 2 for 12, or half points for every frame after 8.

[the30yarder]

masterofceremonies said:

Could I just suggest that you both have valid points, and that something like this would incorporate both ideas:
1 point per frame won.
2 points per team win.
1 point per 3 frames won per team.
In the event of a draw, a playoff between 2 designated players for the 2 win points. (This frame does not count towards Hotshots, as this would give certain players an advantage.)

This system may too be flawed, but it rewards both individual frames, team wins and team performance, even in defeat. There is a marked difference between losing 7-5 and drawing 6-6 because there could be a swing of 4 points (2 for winning on a playoff, 1 for winning the 12th frame and 1 for reaching 6 points). There is also a significant difference between losing the match 10-2 and losing 9-3.
Maximum points haul per match is then 18 points.
12 Frame win points
4 "per 3 frame" bonus points
2 Match win points
This way each frame remains very important in the context of the season, and teams on the whole are rewarded for winning matches too. Also, convincing wins are held in higher esteem than scraped wins, therefore rewarding the best team effort over the season. Thoughts?

I think by rewarding the frames won twice (by giving 1 point per frame and then 1 per three frames) would give a team too many points making them potentially unassailable early on. This system is like the old one but with extra points for three frames, why not just go back to how it was if go back at all?

A draw should also be rewarded by a point. There's nothing wrong with a draw, we're not in America.

[orrible]

orrible, fan that I am of your regular thought-provoking posts, this one is unbalanced and inaccurate.

Never! ;D

Firstly, this system is NOT unique to CAPL, in fact you have just entered another league that uses the exact same scoring system, Superleague.

I meant local league Pool. I am aware of the Superleague format.

Secondly, how can you on the one hand argue that there's always a chance of winning the title near the end of the season with a streak of 12-0s and then say that a 4-man team stands almost no chance of a victory when the fact is they could still afford to lose one of their frames?

Hence the word: "almost"

The system we use at the moment makes the league much closer than it otherwise would be and if frames won and lost were the difference between 2 teams on equal points (as is done in Superleague), then EVERY FRAME WOULD COUNT.

Lets stop playing when 7 frames are achieved then? Like in "Cup" Matches

However, I agree that frames should still have a little more clout and have suggested on this forum in the past that we should use a bonus points system to reward frames won beyond the 7 (like tries are in rugby in the Guiness Premiership), say one point for reaching 10 and 2 for 12, or half points for every frame after 8.

When you sum it up, it is the same as frames plus bonus points for a win. Just more complicated. Lets keep it simple.

[Craig Benstock]

Ian did make good use of 'Bold' & 'Red' Font.

I don't see how that can be topped.

[Dan]

[glow=red,2,300]Oh Really? [/glow]


I like Richards idea about the points system.

[AndyG]

orrible said:

I meant local league Pool. I am aware of the Superleague format.

If it is good enough for Superleague then why not us.?
When the change was voted in, it was because people wanted the superleague format.

[Craig Benstock]

I would vote for a 'points per frame' system over a 'points per win' system, having played using both.

I used to argue that it shouldn't matter, and that players should play for every frame even after the match is technically lost.

Having seen the reality, I have changed my mind, and would welcome a shift back to the old system.

I don't see the Superleague argument as being all that relevant here. There are many systems, all of which have their merits, and all can be more appropriate depending on the league.

That said, I'd rather Superleage were 'points per frame' too.

[Qubit]

admin said:

orrible said:

I meant local league Pool. I am aware of the Superleague format.

If it is good enough for Superleague then why not us.?
When the change was voted in, it was because people wanted the superleague format.

Just because it is good enough/suited for that purpose doesnt mean it is for our purpose. And come to that, is it good enough for superleague? Or is it simply what is currently used in superleague.

[AndyG]

aliensurfer said:

Just because it is good enough/suited for that purpose doesnt mean it is for our purpose. And come to that, is it good enough for superleague? Or is it simply what is currently used in superleague.

I was just pointing out the reason for the original change to this system. Last time I went to a County AGM a couple of years ago there was a similar discussion to what is going on here about the points system used in superleague. After a couple of hours arguing the merits of each one, noone could agree on a different system and the system wasn't changed!

[orrible]

braveben said:

Ian did make good use of 'Bold' & 'Red' Font.

I don't see how that can be topped.

I almost went for italic too. I just felt that might overdo it.

I toyed with the idea of Maroon.

[orrible]

admin said:

orrible said:

I meant local league Pool. I am aware of the Superleague format.

If it is good enough for Superleague then why not us.?
When the change was voted in, it was because people wanted the superleague format.

What people? Is it used in Yarmouth or for local Superleague to qualify?

Either way, it still doesn't mean it is right.

If frames system with bonus is good enough for County, why not us?

We got hammered in Luton and needed a big score yesterday! Guess what? Every frame was played with more importance and was more enjoyable. We hammered Herts and are still in contention!

[AndyG]

orrible said:

What people? Is it used in Yarmouth or for local Superleague to qualify?

The AGM, Yes (both)